updating the update
:)
Happy Eid to you all
I've commented on all your comments...check it out
you girls can continue the discussion as you please here until the next post
I will be posting some more new information on this post
keep checking
Eid kisses to you all
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Update
Girls...comment on this post, not the previous one
:)
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More information
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Adonis
The TS Eliot of Arab Literature
“Tailor, my love is torn-can you sew it for me?”
“Only if you have threads of wind.”
Hello girls
the picture above has nothing to do with your assigned comments, or if you choose, it does :) It is totally up to you
I will post about Arab writers just as bonus information, do with it what you like
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Going through the comments of the last post, I sensed confusion as to the subject to be commented on
My original plan was to post a question or a comment about the "new" reading and then have you react to it one day before class at least
Meaning, I expect one comment, one day before class at the latest
Then, I expect another comment within the next four days after class on the same post
but
I loved all your comments from the last post
so, let's use them to guid as for our first assignment
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Here is what Taz said
First I must say how shocked I am that so many poems mentioned in this chapter use Greek Mythology! I ignorantly had an idea in my mind that Arab poetry mainly focused on nature and sailing the seas due to that being the general topics or should I say the most widespread and traditional subject for poetry.What I found particularly interesting in this chapter, leaving aside the history of how mythology came to the Arabs, was how new modern poets decided to use the characters in Greek myth ‘freely’ and ‘use only one or few aspects of the figure’’ (47) instead of limiting oneself to the original story.An example of this is by the poet ‘Mihyar’ who uses the Quranic story of the Prophet Muhamed’s journey (miraj) to the heavens. He only takes the basis of the Quranic story and replaces it with himself being guided by Ulysses (instead of the angel Gabriel) to the heavens. (58) This again is mentioned in chapter one when referring to Gibrans work where Lazarus taken form the bible is portrayed in a way that Gibran sees fit.(40)
Here is what Mushira said
I just thought i would present my feedback on what i had read, Firstly, from ,"Sand and Foam" i feel Gibran's style is concerned with understanding life, making sense out of what is diffcult to understand regarding the concepts of life. Another focus that Gibran has is regarding image and how we present ourselves in the world and how people see us, in reference to his pieces "Madman" and "My Friend". Also in the latter text i notice the focus on individuality, his want to be alone to enjoy his thought or his beliefs, he doesnt want his friend to know about a part of him; he chooses to keep some of himself to himself and not give it all away.
And here is what Maryam said
Due to a modern world of constant tragedy, fluctuation and change (wars, technology etc), and in a world were God seems nothing more than an abstract idea, a lack of faith was spreading amongst the Arab scholars. Like Westerners, they too had to search for answers to their questions (and religion seemed to be out of the question for some). Many resorted to their own individualistic ideas, but some did not totally neglect the past they once believed in; as it seems, the result of such a resort is a mixture of personal beliefs, eastern (i.e. Islamic) and western (i.e. Greek) ideologies, not to mention the added tang of modernity -like the example you mentioned Taz.Suddenly, Greek ideologies (such as Plato’s utopian vision) and Arab ideologies (heaven, a savior/prophet) were added to the general pessimistic and negative view of modern life, thus creating a more realistic perspective rather than a ‘head-in-the-clouds’ view of life. Reality begins to kick in as one speaks of a Utopian vision of any kind, as expressed in many poems of this article (see poems on page 49 and 50).
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I wouldn't be able to say something better
so
use these comments as guide lines for your own comment either on our past reading, our handout reading (Gibran's work) or on our new reading (new chapter of the book)
your comment can also be independent
meaning, you can state your opinion on any other idea that is of your likeing in any of our readings so far
Do post a comment before our class on Monday
let's make this our first assignment
and we'll talk more in class
I will comment with you as well
girls
you amaze me
:)
(By the way, can you figure out the poet of the verse of the title??)
61 comments:
Hey! I just had to comment:)
White Wings, great idea! I hope when it's my turn to take this class, you do the same.
Dana, Mushira, Tasneem & the rest:
Enjoy it while it lasts. Blogging is an amazing way of discussing stuff and letting yourself into other people's minds.
I'll see you all in 3taibi;p
P.S. - I posted this comment on the older post only to discover, one click later, that you have a new post.
I believe the poet of the verse in the title is Elya Abu Mathi إيليا أبو ماضي but I am not 100% sure :S
amethyst
stay tuned
:)
yamama
you are right...good job
now don't forget your comment-assignment
:)
He looks like a T S Eliot:-D :-P
Hey Y'all!! Hope ur having a good day, I know its kinda late to be commenting, but I did have a hard time accepting the idea of me blogging/commenting on a blog :P
ANYWAYS... I would like to say, as many of u did mention before, that I was suprised with the extensive usage of mythology in Arabic Poetry. From Past readings I always thought that Arabic poetry was centered around two "Romeo and Juliet"-like lovers (3antar oo 3abla, and Majnoon Laila), or poetry which was purely based on glorifying wars and certain political leaders.
However, there was something that did dissapoint me a little, which is the idea that Arabs tend to politicize most aspects of like. But then again.... you can't blame them because many did undergo life-long hardships and experienced oppression which ultimately did drive them to immigrate, thus having to settle with the idea of home as a long lost dream.
A striking allegory that did grab my attention is the prevailing theme of a "journey" or a "hero" to get the freedom and peace we're constantly in search of. We as Arabs can easily relate becuase of the whole issue of Palestine and waiting for a "hero" to help create peace and freedom in that lang.
Gibran's ability to master language proves to be highly impressive. He is one of the few writers whom I feel has what Wordsworth called "Poetic Genius." Not only was reading his short stories enlightening, but applying Asa'ad Khairallah's critical essay to them showed me just how far arabic literature engaged greek myth in its work. As KHairallah states, Gibran played with Greek myths to fit the arab culture, or better yet, the content of his work. It was remarkable to discover that in traditional arabic literature: "Symbolism and allegory were not welcome," yet Gibran's short stories were packed with metaphors , allusions, and symbols. Apart from Gibran, the other poets such as Nazik Al Mala'ika and Omar Khayyam in Khairallah's essay seemed to have an even deeper influence from greek myth. Their passion in writing about journeys, greek characters/gods, and their strong hope for a Platonic world which they colourfully intersected with arabic culture seems to me as contemporary. No wonder why they started the New Poets movemement! i think i'm really starting to see and feel the beauty of arabic literature..
Hello everyone :) Reading the chapter on The Greek Cultural Heritage was quite interesting, I had no idea that the Arabs borrowed so much from GReek literature and actually created a literature of their own by using bits and pieces of Greek myths, namely Odysseus/Ulysses. I had never made that association between Odysseus and Sindbad, I had always seen them as two different legendary people, never making a comparrison.The similarities are many, I don't know how I never linked them. As for the way that the poets considered themselves similar to Odysseus, being on a journey of enlightenment and finding one's identity, I connected that to the idea of a poet being a vissionary, a prophet-like person trying to guide humankind through life.
Finally I'd like to note that the Lebanese poet Fuad Rifqa seems different from the other poets mentioned in this chapter because he is "haunted by the oppressive running of time to see any use in social utopia." This view grabbed my attention more than the other poets' views. He is more concerned with the self and the journey of discovering the depths of one's soul. Everything else isn't as important.
Moving on to Gibran, I especially enjoyed Sand and Foam, the small quotations were inspiring and easy to remember. They are such short lines with such great insight and they carry so much meaning. "Half of what I say is meaningless, but I say it so that the other half may reach you."-Gibran
1st of all a big LOL to Yaz!! :P not medicated ehh looool the yipeeee sounded very medicated to me :P :P
2ndly--who's Amethyst? =) lol ..let me know who u are….(looooved ur list btw!!!) lol even after that I still can’t guess who u are!
3rdly..Maryam your post was really great! =) Yeh the mixing of East and West is very prominent in ‘modern’ Arabic literature as i gathered from chapter 2, it's amazing to see how they adapted to Eastern culture (shown by them understanding and relating to Greek myths and then incorporating them with their own style and thought).
Just something else to comment on for those of u that are wondering why aren’t these poets writing about Arab myths?? Is it just the adventures of Sinbad?!" well on pg 45 there’s the answer :)
*Its because the traditionalists shunned symbolism and allegory and mainly focused on stories form the Quran and Bible*
Oh and one more thing, the school of poetry ‘Apollo’ and its members, were they the first ones to incorporate western influences in their work? If not who was? :S
Chapter two was fascinating! I was (pleasantly) surprised to learn about the Greek influence on Arab poets, just like everyone else was:-P I guess Greek mythology is so vast that it finds its way into all kinds of literatures.
I think the best thing about discovering this link between Greek mythology and Arabic literature is that it negates a notion I’ve always had about the Arabs being distant people with a separate literature, separate beliefs, and a separate everything else. The exoticism of Greek myths must have been very tempting to the Arabs, and their imaginative element must have competed with other religions, like Islam and Christianity, especially in a world where there was “constant tragedy, fluctuation and change (wars, technology etc), and in a world were God seems nothing more than an abstract idea,” as Maryam mentioned:-)
I can't help but notice the yearning of most of the poets, who wish to live in a place where there is no evil in the mist of the air. A place filled with innocence and tranquility. To be frank I do not blame them. I even emphathize with one of the poets who has this nostalgia towards his country especially the River Nile and I do believe that it is one of the rivers from Heaven. Nice fact isn't it?
October 7, 2007 9:42 AM
This chapter about "The Greek Cultural Heritage and the Odyssey of Modern Arab Poets" was very interesting in a way, it taught me information that I never knew before. Believe it or not I was not aware of how much the Arabic poetry was influenced by Greek mythology. What attracted me most was how the characters or should I say people in both the Greek culture and the Arabic poetry. "except for the mention of two mythical personages and what peryains to them, namely, the Arab Sindabad and the Greek Odysseus." "It is striking to find here a poet who made use of so many mythical figures not only planning to limit himself to the mythical framework of sea and sailing but finding it necessary to associate Ulysses with the most famous Arab sailor, Sindbad! So why this development and how does it manifest itself?" (pg 46)It is amazing how Arab poets from diffrent countries all were influenced by one culture, this shows how strong and important the Greek culture was at that time. Looking forward to more discussion in class about it :)
Thats an interesting fact... that The Beatles took from Gibran's poem in their song Julia. I didn't know that. I admire Gibran for still loving his country and to be buried in its soil. Constantine P. Cavafy is what I call a person with a great deal of experiences or more like an International figure. No wonder he advised Ulysses in his poems not be too hasty in returning to Ithaca... try to enjoy the experiences of life, let it nourish you. I should keep that in mind.
October 8, 2007 3:35 AM
I understand why Aisha had the image of Arabic poetry involving only lovers, wars and politics. This is what we first notice about the poetry we study in high school and intoductory courses in college. However, the subjects are discussed in other poetry. Brief examples are Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde and Akhmatova's war poetry. So the topics are pretty universal in my point of view.
What is completely unexpected is Greek mythology in Arabic poetry. I have to look through that.
I love the quote Shahd has up there.
Tasneem, it's good to know I can hide in my own blog. I'll say hi to you at school. Thanks:)
Hello everyone!:-) I was wondering, is it okay to post political stuff on the blog? I have a poem by Ahmad Mutar that I'd like to share...
I find the link between Arabic and Greek literature a very intriguing combination .. As Maryam has mentioned earlier,the modern era provided skepticism among Arabs and Westerners alike .. However, if you keep in mind that most of these poems were written in the early 1900's.. well it's sort of far-fetched, even in our world today .. Adunis's and Cavafy's works are practically ode-like poems that praise Ulysses, while other writers tended to concentrate on the beauty of a woman's eyes.. what makes them even more daring is how they seemed to find a common ground between Islam and Greek Ideals (Heaven and Utopia for example) and created this fantasy world they dwelled in..
However, i do not really find this "fantasy world" too much of a happy place, most of these poems start off as being highly pessimitic and Heraclitean (Hijzai, 53).. towards the end they switch to their Platonic "nature" where Utopia gives them that glimpse of hope they have left.. a world "where freedom, justice, and dignity help the individual and the group."
Who are you Amethyst, you seem to be so interested and interesting lol.. And Zainab, please do post the poem you have.. I trust your judgment ;P
Hey Everyone,
The discussion here is absolutely lively about the influence of Greek mythology upon Arab literature, and i can se the impact since as Khairallah explains that the Arabs really didnt have much mythological material to be able to allude to within thier literature.
Another point i must say i enjoyed is the metaphor of the journey within thier writing. This refers to the idea of the "philosophers stone", to Ulysses's journey, that matters so much more than the actual arrival itself.
Shahda, and Taz i completely agree about the Sindbad reveltaion. Isn't it extroadinary how as kids and young teens we heard the story of Sindbad, or at least heard parts of it, and we never linked it to greek myth? Going back to what i can remember of the traditional story, i have know noticed how similar it is to many Greek works (The Odyssey, and Ulysses are but a few). Being as passionate as I am about history, and Grek mythology, from the looks of what Arabic literatre has to offer so far, I am very excited about what;s to come. Modern Arabic Literature has come a long way since the literature of "EL jaheliya" especially in terms of idealizing sea journeys rather than desert ones, and focusing on an ideal/Platonic view of the world, or the after-life. Hence, the modern poets opened up themes that could have questioned tradition, but at the same time transcended/modified arabic culture.
On a sadder note, it was very distressing to find out that most of the extroadinary poets that we read about in the assigned chapter lived completely isolated and under very harsh economic conditions. One would think that with such talent they would be celebrated and awarded :( Sadly, however, that is the siituation of some of the world's best genuises. We only understand their worth once they're gone..
one more thing i forgot to add is
the search for this "Utopia", by the Mahjar poets. This forgotten, lost land that some are only told about from the idealistic stories of thier parents, or only remember in the beauty of it as it was.
this also relates to the idea of the loss of ones nation, either through voluntary or involuntary exile.The only way that they can revive this lost land, along with its culture and tradition is to write about it and yearn for it as Nazik Al Malaíka has done.
Another point of interest for me is the "Tammuzian poetry", where the poets look for a hero to save them from the state of the Arab world from its crisis, which reminds me directly of W. B.Yeats poem "The Second Coming" eventhough the arrival of the "Savior" is presented as a beast, rather than the hero that is expected. I feel that this will be the direction of Arab literature soon (even if it has not become this way already).
The last point that i will mention is repeated in the textbook, where Khairallah mentions that the usage of Greek mythology was used for two themes, the "psychic and spiritual journey" (represented in the writings of Gibran) and the later literature than employs mythology on the "social and cultural level" (which Nazik al Malaika uses in her writing).
Amethyst, you might as well join us in class, seeing that you're so interested in our discussion. Maybe then you'll help us all solve the mystery of who you are. How very mysterious... loool.
Yasmine, you already know me;p I'll reveal myself tomorrow and save you from the suspense. All good?
Having read the second chapter of our text book, which discusses "Greek Culture and Heritage…" I can proudly say that I can see the light. It is unfortunate as Arabs; we tend to forget about authors, poets, dramatists, and philosophers who come from the same areas as we do. Instead we tend to "worship" foreign artists and abide to everything and anything they say. However, reading this chapter, I can now relate to these Arab poets we are studying. For they were as we are, stuck between two worlds, we try to hold on to our roots, but yet again we are highly influenced by the western world and its literature.
I find it very intriguing to see that Greek mythology has been used in Arabic poetry. The issue in the Arab world is that we connect everything with religion; which makes it impossible for scholars to relate Greek Gods to their lives, for that is considered ( for some) blasphemous.
The idea of the journey, being more important to the poets, than utopia itself is very interesting. i honestly like this idea, because then no matter where you end up, and how much you dont think of it of your "utopia", one would have benifited from the journey itself.
Zainab please do post the political poems your talking about; those would be extremly interesting to discuss :)
Mushira, I've always thought of the journey as more important than the arrival. A very good example of that would be Paulo Coelho's The Alchemist.
Dana, we relate to the torn between two worlds theory well becuase we are young. We are advancing spiritually and mentally. Yes, we try to hold on to our roots and what our parents have taught us, but we are also influenced by literature (isn't it a big influence?) and Western society. I wonder how we will feel about this topic ten years from now:)
Hi all I found the poem "Ithaca" interesting in a way as we all know it was wriiten by Cavafy. what i found interesting was that Ithaca was an island in Greece.Some people say that the name Ithaca came from the Greek mythology hero Ithacos.The name has been unchanged from the ancient times.In additon to that some people say that Ithaca was the home of Odysseus and it is sometimes disagreed that
the description of the poem does not match the topography of modern Ithaca and they are seen as difficult or challenging. But I am still not sure which one came first the poem or the island. :P
girls
you are doing an amazing job...keep the conversation going...I will participate soon..
zaiab n
feel free to post on political issues, after all, what is not political?? Our studies are very political in nature and so your poem should be highly related...i would think...
Hey!
This blog is so useful, we all share our ideas putting bits and pieces together which makes life easier...
I would like to thank eveybody coz your comments made the whole chapter so clear...
I want to add a few things about Adonis the Greek Mythology and Adunis the Syrian Poet.
I found out that the Syrian Poet is known as Adunis because he represents the idea of rebirth, just as Adonis the Greek represents the God of life, death, rebirth, vegetation and handsome youth.
This means that Adunis (Ali Asbar) may have chosen this name due to his strong relates to life, death and rebirth issues in his writings.
As mentioned also in the book, Adunis' poetry includes "the vision that life and art are a permanent, external and internal journey." (p.43)
In other words, his poetry tends to deal with life, death and rebirth, and I think that he took this kind of theme from the Qur'an, because as you know the main and most important subject that the Qur'an talks about is life, death and our rebirth again...
But although Adunis' idea comes from the Qur'an and the Greek Myth he still has his own taste in his writings,
meaning that he is adopting the external but not the internal idea of life and afterdeath life that we know, instead he is searching for Utopia and the land of visions and longing using the Greek hero's figure and strength to reach to his target.
As we also know that Adunis chose this ancient name because he expects everyone to know who he is talking about and to add to his modern poetry the taste of that unforgetable, ingrained legacy of the ancient Greek mythology..
Thanks,
Hey!
This blog is so useful, we all share our ideas putting bits and pieces together which makes life easier...
I would like to thank eveybody coz your comments made the whole chapter so clear...
I want to add a few things about Adonis the Greek Mythology and Adunis the Syrian Poet.
I found out that the Syrian Poet is known as Adunis because he represents the idea of rebirth, just as Adonis the Greek represents the God of life, death, rebirth, vegetation and handsome youth.
This means that Adunis (Ali Asbar) may have chosen this name due to his strong relates to life, death and rebirth issues in his writings.
As mentioned also in the book, Adunis' poetry includes "the vision that life and art are a permanent, external and internal journey." (p.43)
In other words, his poetry tends to deal with life, death and rebirth, and I think that he took this kind of theme from the Qur'an, because as you know the main and most important subject that the Qur'an talks about is life, death and our rebirth again...
But although Adunis' idea comes from the Qur'an and the Greek Myth he still has his own taste in his writings,
meaning that he is adopting the external but not the internal idea of life and afterdeath life that we know, instead he is searching for Utopia and the land of visions and longing using the Greek hero's figure and strength to reach to his target.
As we also know that Adunis chose this ancient name because he expects everyone to know who he is talking about and to add to his modern poetry the taste of that unforgetable, ingrained legacy of the ancient Greek mythology..
Thanks,
Yamama, I think the island came first.. Just a guess though..
And the journey does matter more, not only a journey in the sense of "a journey" but I think in achieving anything you want, from the smallest thing to the biggest goal.. the fun lies in the chase, the yearning for something..maybe when you get what you want it doesn't have the same effect on you as you thought it would..hmm
And Amethyst, Dana, about being caught in two worlds..perhaps most of us do feel that way, whether we are hybrids or just from a private school education with a western mentality shoved into an arab/islamic world.. I don't think it has much to do with being "young" amethyst, as you say..for me it's not a question of age..:)
shahd
Sorry, I didn't meet agewise. I meant we still have a lot of space for mental and spiritual advancements. We may always be torn between these two worlds; however, the reasons will change. I hope I'm making sense.
Amethyst, i agree completely, i feel that Coelho has picked up from Gibran in all his novels. espicially "I Sat by the River Piedra and Wept" and "The Alchemist" and now we can find the wisdom of Coelho sold alongside the wisdom of Gibran. Great minds do think alike! :)
Hiya guys =)
ohhh ehhhh this is amazing! Really really great ideas :)
sort of leading off after Yaz's post...in class we discussed how poets fled their homeland due to terrible conditions, and instead settled in the West. What i found tragic was that when some returned home they sadly found it the same as they had left it. Hoping it had changed in their absence, they came back to find it unchanged or even worse perhaps. More shocking however was what Dr. Ebtehal said about some famous poets dying penniless and in extreme poverty! What came across my mind in class is the reason behind this poverty and un-appreciation for their great works of literature was the rejection by their society, as many wrote very political and sometimes controversial works which stunned its readers. This rejection I believe caused them to leave the East and be mesmerized and intrigued by the free speech of the West and its liberation that it offered…a sort of Utopia as mentioned in this chapter.
If you have any other opinions let me know =) I could be wrong ;)
P.S. It would be great if someone could remind us of the names of poets that were driven away from their home, my background knowledge is appalling, and I find it really difficult to remember most of these Arab writers names! :S
*I think I just gave Dr Ebtehal a heart attack by daring to say that!* :P
Tasneem, hehe this is a list of the Arab poets who were driven away from their homes.
The poets who emigrated to North America, U.S and Canada, were:
- جبران خليل جبران
- ميخائيل نعيمة
- ايليا ابو ماضي
- نسيب عريضة
- رشيد أيوب
- عبدالمسيح حداد
- ندرة حداد
- وليم كاتسليف
- وديع باموط
- الياس عبدالله
The poets who emigrated to South America, Brazil, Argentine, Mexico and Venezuela, were:
- ميشيل نعمان معلوف
- فوزي المعلوف
- رشيد سليم خوري
- شفيق المعلوف
- اليلس فرحات
- عقل الجر
- شكر الله الجر
- جرجس كرم
- توفيق قربان
- اسكندر كرباج
- نضير زيتون
- مهدي سكافي
(sorry i wrote the names in Arabic) :S
I agree with u Fatima :)
Thanks Shahd, Dana and Dr Ebtehal;-)
I got this poem in an email during the summer the war in Lebanon took place, and I’ve kept it in my inbox ever since:-P It’s a really great poem.
The reason I like it a lot is because at the time, the only Arabic poetry I knew was what we learnt in school. Not that I didn’t like that poetry, it was just that I hadn’t thought of the possibility of other genres of Arabic poetry, like this one. So it seemed very conventional (although now I know that it really isn’t:-P). I also like it for its daring; for such a brief poem, this one is definitely powerful.
I hope nobody is offended by the subject matter.
النملة قالت للفيل
أحمد مطر
النملة قالت للفيل : قم دلكني
ومقابل ذلك ضحكني!؛
واذا لم اضحك عوضني
بالتقبيل وبالتمويل
واذا لم اقنع..قدم لي
كل صباح الف قتيل
ضحك الفيل؛
فشاطت غضبا؛
تسخر مني يا برميل
ما المضحك فيما قد قيل؟
غيري اصغر...؛
لكن طلبت اكثر مني
غيرك اكبر ..؛
لكن لبى وهو ذليل
اي دليل؟؟
اكبر منك بلاد العرب
واصغر مني اسرائيل
Tasneem, your post made me think of something... I remember when we first came to KU, we were all excited and optimistic about our futures. During the very first week, however, one of our teachers dashed our hopes by saying how foolish we are for expecting good things from KU and how KU doesn’t even compare with other universities abroad. I remember very clearly he told us that those who go to continue their education in the West come back feeling like they can change the world, and it will only take them about a year to abandon their ambitions. This, he said, was because in this part of the world, people are underappreciated.
Although it is true that people (especially those involved in the arts) are underappreciated over here, I think a change in attitude could change things. We have to start somewhere, after all! And maybe in the future more people will learn to appreciate and respect people like Gibran.
PS I feel very proud when I think that the past 3 years have not been what our teacher predicted at all. If anything, it’s been the exact opposite:-D And I hope it goes on:-)
:)
Yamama, thank you so much!! I was expecting just 2 to 3 names but that was brilliant!!! :D thanks alot for all your trouble ..it just goes to show that most of these poets were in fact escaping their home land due to the bitterness that society threw upon them.
Zainab, I completely forgot about that! Now that u mention it its all coming back to me. :S At the time I didn’t even think twice about how sad and bitter those words were! I’m glad im such a positive person and choose not to let those words get to me! Yes u couldn’t be more right! These years have taught me so much , and have changed me as a person. I am so happy to say that we have both proved him wrong!! ;)
Have a wonderful holiday girls :)
Tasneem, your welcome anytime :D
Happy Eid, girls:)
Aisha al suwaidan
Good points Aisha, politicizing issues is an Arabic plague and the quest for a hero is an ever on going one..
Yasmine
It's great news that you're starting to delevope a taste for Arabic literature so why do you think symbolism and allegory where not all that welcomed in Arabic lit??
And yes Yasmine, very sad that we only realize the worth of our "Artist" after they're gone..
Shahad
Good comments
So notice how even our people of words are profits-wanna-be :)
The savios image is very attractive, wouldn't you say?
What are your favorite lines of Rifqa's??
Tasneem
Good questions Taz
That understanding of Western mythology and the shunning of it, can you predict the reaons behind both actions??
And Apollo might be the first "group" to adopt Westernized literature, there where previous "singular" attempts, can you girls think of some??
And you are right about the reasons behind Eastern societies rejecting their poets, it has to do with tradition and religion…conservatism roots deep in Eastern societies..
No heart attack hon :) I forget names as well, I have my age as an excuse, what's yours? :)
Zainab n
Dangerous comments :)
Yes, that might answer Taz's question about the reason behind Western mythology resentment, it could be the clashing between mythological ideas and religious ones
The poem you listed is one I use in my Translation class, isn't it amazing..
Can you girls get the meaning?
And Zainab, never give up on your hopes…hope is what builds the future…only your group will achieve wonderful change in all your different societies, mark my words…you will see it happening very soon
Zainab AL-Sharif
These poets are caught between two cultures…there is the appreciation for a new safer, more organized life and there is the yearning and longing for a place they call "home"
Good advice by Cavafy, and you should pay a visit to Bsheri in Lebanon and check GIbran's house and museum out..you would be amazed
Yamama
Yes Yamam, classical Greek is still considered by many to be "The Literature" of all times… many literary and scientific foundations were set at that time..
And thanks for relisting the names hon..
Amethyst
Yalla…you should take this class next semester :)
Nour
Very good Nour
Now this adaptation of Greek mythology by religion was done before by the Church, as they first Christianized Beowulf, the oldest narrative work we know today, and then many other classical works, even Plato's ideas and philosophical concepts…this adaptation does not always create a happy world, but one that is religiously acceptable.
Mushira
Journeying was part of the Arabic ideology, within their physical and spiritual lives…good point
And Mushera..your prediction of the upcoming of the savior-beast in Arabic literature is loaded…are you willing to stand for it? :)
Dana Akasha
Yes Dana, that "relating everything to religion" is dangerous, but the Christian Church found itself forced to do it at the end and so will the Islamic institutions if they are to accept more revolutionary literary works…it has a good chance of happening..
Very good comments..
And yes Dana once more, it's all about the Utopia
Fatma Rajab
Precisely Fatma, Adunis moves freely in the realm of his own poetry because he expects us to know the myth…thus, he is using it in a deeper way, much like Bader Shaker Al-Sayyab
Happy Eid everyone :)
and WOW Yamama, that is one long list. I can't believe the Arab world exiled all these poets! It makes me wonder, how conventional was it at that time? Yet again, it proves the power words have on people. I think it's the strongets weapon, and the Arab politicians must have known that and that's why they either kicked the poets out, or pushed them to leave :(
Shahd and Dana, I feel like we are partially to blame for our neglect of Arabic Literature. We did after all grow up here (it may have been harder for people how have lived inthe West for years), and despite the fact that we went to Englsih/American schools if we really put our minds to it we could have been more aware of Arabic Lit. Dr. Ebtehal, the poetry contest you had talked about in the previous class, I too had participated in it. Sadly, I won something but i don't remember what, lol. I also, don't remember what I read. What i DO remember, however, is that I was the only private school participant, and how scary that was :P Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that despite our 'English' education, our schools aren't fully to blame for our lack of knowledge of Arabic Lit.
Zaynab, that poem is very deep. Although, its language is fairly simple, it's meaning is very profound. It's a loud attack on the Arab world, which I believe is sometimes required, so peaople can consdier taking action. Unfortunately, the message it's sending has a lot of truth in it.
Taz and Zainab, we truly have a come a long way since then. I don't think any of us thought we would get all the knowledge we've gained over the past three years. We;re stereotyped to lack intellect, since the ones with the 'brains' go to everything else, but looking at most of the students and the teachers around me I've noticed just how ignorant people can be. I really am proud and grateful for the education I got out of KU. I hope the teacher who told us that stuff doesn't spread his 'loving words' to any other students :P
Happy Eid everyone, I hope that u enjoy ur vacation with ur friends and family. I will have to agree with u Yasmin... we shouldn't blame the schools for the lack of knowledge we have on Arabic poetry. I must confess that I didn't like the arabic classes we had in school but that opinion changed once I took the required arabic subjects.To see foreigners studying our own language and know more about it than us is in away an embarrasement. I am proud that they considered studying arabic for their major. Zainab could u please send me the poem because the fonts are tiny and I have difficulty in reading it. Thanks and sorry for the trouble.
P.S before u start commenting on wat I said I forgot to add that the fonts are tiny for me don't forget that i wear glasses :P Zanoob if u send me the poem i will send you a very cute video of a cat.
Before anyone asks me to read Arabic poetry to them :P I should say that I only joined the competition due to my Arabic teacher's pressure on me, and being 10, I just couldn't refuse. I think she picked me because she knew I would be too kind to refuse :P So the truth is, I'm terrible at reading Arabic poetry. I think I would have strengthen my normal Arabic reading skills before even having a go for the poetry, lol.
On a more serious note, I think I can say that the poets we read about were 'spiritual' in every element of their poetry. However, one should keep in mind that spirituality in this context doesn't substitue for religion. It is rather hints at the meditative qualities the poets share. From the beginning of the journey till the discovery, the reader is captured in a trance, which strikingly is the same effect Paulo Cohelo's novels have on us. Thanks Amethyst for bringing that interesting similarity into the light :)
Happy Eid, everyone!:-D
Dr Ebtehal, this is the kind of thing we like to her from our teachers! It honestly makes all the difference. I hope we live up to your expectations:-P
Yasmine, I agree with you that we are partially to blame for our lack of knowledge when it comes to Arabic literature, but don’t you think that the educational system is to blame too? In school, the Arabic teachers had to compete with other teachers to try and make Arabic lessons fun and profitable at the same time. And the sad thing is that they were tightly bound to the syllabi from the Ministry of Education. I think if some of them had their own way, they would have managed to make an impression on us.
It was very brave of you to participate in the poetry competition! And to win, mashallah! You must be proud of yourself:-D
Zainab, I’ll print out a copy of the poem and bring it to you on Tuesday, it’s no trouble at all;-) A cute video of a cat is the perfect bribe:-P It’s an amazing poem...No matter how many times I read it, it continues to amaze me.
I know :P So do u still want the video? I mean I need ur email account to send it :P Thanks again. I somehow agree with u because I remember the materials that we studied in arabic classes was not much of an excitement. If it was then I would have kept my arabic textbooks. As for the materials that I took in university I still have them in my folders. Anyways that was all in the past I hope that they will find a solution to motivate students into liking this subject.
(I posted this quite a while back, but in the SEPTEMBER post)
Hiya people! WOW great comments.. I feel like I missed out on a lot since I fell ill. I would just like to thank those who commented on my 1st post. And I appreciate those who agreed on some certain points.
I think by now, almost everyone might agree that Greek myths are NO longer 'dead'; they are, in fact, very much alive, rejuvenated and have been modernized too. Even nowadays, they are still lurking in the corners of our minds, ever heard of “Holy Hera”? (Note: Hera is the Greek queen of gods and wife of Zeus)
I'm still thinking about Morpheus (a computer program used to downloads MUSIC -I uninstalled it by the way, it had way too much adware!) and how Orpheus (minus the M) is actually the name of Greek god of MuSiC.. As we all know, even the courses we study/studied are affected by Greek myths i.e.:
Survey of Criticism --> Plato
Romantic Poetry --> Wordsworth, pagan ideas, etc
Modern Novel --> James Joyce, Ulysses
Anglo/Arabic lit --> Adonis, his poetry and Ulysses (again) etc
And just since my thoughts have been ‘music-ified’ :) I feel that the Beatles taking from Gibran’s works is a very interesting point Zainab. I guess that reveals that it’s NOT only easterners who seem influence by westerners, because vice versa is quite true.
LOL Shahad that final quote by Gibran is really full of wit, but also full of deep meaning; I like how Gibran is seen as a "poetic genius" as Yasmine mentioned, he’s like a Wordsworth himself if you think about it, to me he's more of a poetic 'hero'? Wouldn't you say?
Thanks again..
LOL sorry about the old post.. It should have been here ages ago..
I like so many points that were being discussed here.. I guess a lot of people (writers, etc) feel torn between their culture and what they learn at school , or watch on T.V etc (be it American/British notions or ideas) thus somehow end up adopting that mentality, letting it affect the traditions of their own culture..
It not only affects the way they write (if they are writers) but the way they dress, and the way they live generally.. I guess it's all part of American dominance over the world..
A side discussion: what does it mean to be educated or liberated? Isn’t it to "be like them": hence, know the language, and copy the life style, and you’re accepted..
Assimilation maybe?
But one thing is for sure.. Being anything else other than being like "them" is backward or not 'normal'..!
Right?
P.S: I suppose “normal” is what you, as a person, define it.. To me there is no such thing as "normal", i.e.: a normal life, a normal face, a normal society, etc..
Hey girls, hope you all enjoyed your holiday and are ready to go back to work .. you've all got some pretty interesting comments.. I too find it both sad and disturbing that a majority of the poets died penniless.. which brings me to maryam's questions.. Maryam, i don't really think that being educated is being "like them" .. liberated maybeee to some people.. stating the obvious, education is knowledge and the writers seem to apply and make use of their knowledge liberally.. (freely, saying what is on their mind, and it usually clashes with the social norms..) and that is the reason why most of these writers died broke, people tend to resist change and find it hard to accept reality, so when someone actually gives us an honest perspective most of us deny the truth behind it .. we still like to grasp into the idea that the cycle of life is running smoothly and poets like Gibran show us that it is far from that .. that's all for now :p
Yes Maryam it is a nice thing to see that The Easterns do influence the Westerners. in fact there is no difference between us except the locations and traditions. I'm sorry but I kind of disagree with u and support what Nour said. Look at Plato for instance, how his expressions about life lead him to his death. Sometimes a visionary has to struggle in life or pass away in order for people to notice him or her which is sad. Education does not mean that you think like a westerner but opens the oppurtunity for people to understand the world and see the depths of it.
Happy Eid Girls, hope you enjoyed the holiday...
Reading " Nasser and the Death of Elegy in Modern Arabic Poetry " I understood that the elegy or ( شعر الرثاء ) has been a central concern of the public since very long, and even earlier than that exists the competing of Arabic elegy as a private business.
Before Islam elegies were supposed to be written by family or close relatives.
Moving to the modern period, we see that the elegy's perception is to spread the public voice out loudly and to stand against colonialism. But after WW1 this public elegy was attacked by Arab Romantic schools who called for individualism.
On the other side we have Jamal Abd Al-Nasir who had an active political life and a number of herioc actions. Nasir was seen as the Prophet Muhammad by the eyes of some Arabic poets like Nizar Qabbani and Zafir al-Sabuni. After the death of Nasser we see how ancient mythology came back again by linking Nasser with ancient myths and heros like Tammuz (God of rebirth).
Sisyphus is what I call the mirror image of Promethius only he uses his cleverness for evil purposes, rather than being considerate towards the humans.
I must say, i did not only find this chapter informative about the poetic Arabic tradition of elegy, but I also was deeply inspired by the story of Egyptian political hero, Jamal Abd al Nasser. It is hard to believe that one man could not only change the course of history, but also equally inspire nations and poets to stick to a kind of poetry that was retiring. As you have said, Fatima, after WWI Romantic poets attacked the poetic discipline of elegy, as it was seen as old-fashioned and collides with their individualistic, modern approach to poetry. However, the death of Nasser breathed life into a discipline that was once dying and allowed Arab poets to experiment with style rather than theme. This gave rise to younng poets and allowed prominent ones to affirm their poetic talents. "Nasser's death both created an oppurtunity for poets to use their elegaic talents to the fullest and made it difficult if not impossible, for them to duplicate their efforts at a later date. Thus, Nasser's death could be said to have decreed the death of elegy in modern Arabic Poetry."
Forgive my long quote i just saw it to be perfect for my discussion :)
I do have more to say about Darwishs enlightening yet real poem, "The Man with the Grren Shadow", but I will keep it for next time since i can sense someone yawning :P
This chapter was more interesting than the previous ones we have read, since most of us have background on Jamal Abdulnasser. We all know how he was such an important figure, but reading about how he was viewed as a prophet figure or visionary was very moving. Also, "elegy" or "ritha" is a kind of poetry that we had been taught in school. I recall clearly reading work by "Al Khansa'a", in arabic ofcourse and being touched by the intensity of emotion and mourning her loved ones.But I am still a bit confused about elegy being either public or private..If I understand correctly, after AbdulNasser's death, elegy became a public thing,where everyone could mourn publicly? I'm not too sure.
As for the example on Nizar Qabani's poem, "Qatalnaka" I was very surprised that he could write with such political bluntness. I have read alot of his poems but they have all been love poetry..I reccomend his work for all you girls..it is simpler than most arabic poetry.
Finally, Darwish's poem "The Man with the Green Shadow" was very inspiring and beautifully worded, especially the way he associates the color green with Abdulnasser which is "the color of veggetation and growth" (p 77). The language and style are very moving, speaking to us "privately" and publicly.
The chapter on ‘Nasser and the Death of Elegy’ I found really interesting as some of it was linked to a postcolonial class I took last semester. The effect colonialism has on poetry and other forms of literature whether it may be novels or critical essays we now see in this chapter on Arabic poetry. There’s something about being colonized and oppressed that stirs up the spirit and enhances the mood for national liberation, especially writers who believe that they can make a difference by expressing how they feel on behalf of the colonized citizens. This is called ‘’resistance literature’’ (pg64) which boosted the writing of arab elegy poems because of the ''violent interference of colonial and imperial history'' as Barbora Harlow described in her book.
Thank you for your comments Zainab and Nour :)
Just for the sake of clarification, I was merely pointing out how people in the West GENERALLY look at the Arabic-oriented countries.. It's true that every person believes in certain things, thus it shouldn't make them backward -or developed for that matter.. Everyone is advanced in the way he/she choose to see it.. But no matter how hard we stress this, the West is 'considered' to be the ideal way of living..
For example, if you can't speak English, therefore you are, umm, how can I say this, CONSIDERED (not by me! but by many) to be uneducated.. However, (like beliefs), being educated is a term that is defined differently from person to person and from culture to culture..
But don't you think this tears people apart, mentally? It causes a sort of confusion: living another life with VERY different traditions makes you think about your own, maybe even reconsider your past traditions.. I agree Zainab, that this process opens/broadens your mind to other things, but doesn't it make you question your own way-of-life (thus affecting how you live)? I feel like it torments those particular writers who travel and live as expatriates.. Remember "The Lost Generation" poets? Why call them 'Lost'? (Henry James, T.S Eliot etc)
One more point (OH GOSH, this is REALLY off TOPIC) think of the 7ijab/veil, and women who travel abroad and keep it on; almost automatically she is considered as 'the other' by the Americans, French or English etc, because she is not dressed in the so-called 'ideal' way.. But of course, in Kuwait, this IS the IDEAL way of dressing.. However, there are people that know why the 7ijab is important, but then again many don't..
And do you know what else is odd about people who migrate for a long time? When they come back to their home lands -once again- they are considered (by the majority) as 'the other'.. Hence, this results in even more isolation than ever before..
Tell me what you think.. (LOL I know we were supposed to move to Jamal Abdul Nasser, sorrry!)
:)
About ur comment Maryam I can understand wat u mean. It is true that the West tends to be the Ideal figure of the world and if u speak and dress differently u r alienated as u said. That is why poets express themselves through poetry so that they could surpass the pressures of life. I guess the Freudian theory is affecting me now :P I seem to relate it in everything that I read. Sometimes the world is toocomplex to answer and so we have to strive in order to live. It does feel that we are trapped between two borders. I hope that I answered ur question Maryam but doubt that i did. I still have not read the chapter so please forgive me folks for not commenting on ur comments
Reading "The Greek Cultural Heritage and the Odyssey of Modern Arab Poets" reminds me of the term "Taf3ela" poetry during the contemporary period of Arabic poetry. In "Taf3ela" poetry, some poets use the essence of mythology and manipulate myths in accordance with their own contemporary beliefs. For example, I recall a poem by Adunis in which he manipulates the ending of the myth concerning Ikarus in order to uphold the eternal dream of the impossible and pursue it. When Ikarus and his father, Dedarus, decide to escape prison, they make wings of wax to fly over the sea and reach a faraway land.While the father flies near the surface, Ikarus decides to fly high as much as he can, so the higher he flies, the closer he gets to the sun until the wings melt and Ikarus sinks into the sea, but in the poem by Adunis on Ikarus, he actually flies away disappearing from sight to chase his dream of reaching and achieving the ultimate. However, his returning is expected:
مر هنا ايكار
حدق في الورق الشاحب شم النار
في الغرف الخضرة في البراعم الوديعة
وهز..هز الجذع واستجار
والتف كالوشيعة
ثم انتشى وطار
لم يحترق
لما يعد ايكار
October 17, 2007 3:17 PM
Since our main focus today in class was on nostalgia as an important theme regarding Arabic poetry since the pre-Islamic poetry, I would like to shed some light on the "Mu3alagat", a kind of long Arabic poetry that was popular during the pre-Islamic period. These "mu3alagat" have often started with introductory verses referred to as " mogademat 6alaleya" by which the poet cries over the remains of the homeland when the emigration season starts. These introductory verses appealed to the people of that ime because they shared with them the memories of their homeland and loved ones whom they lost during the emigration. We can also see in these verses the longing for women associated with nostalgia as we mentioned in class:
طرفة بن العبد البكري:
لخولة اطلال ببرقة ثهمد
تلوح كباقي الوشم في ظاهر اليد
النابغة الزيباني:
يا دار مية بالعلياء فالسند
اقوت وطال عليها سالف الامد
الاعشى:
ودع هريرة ان الركب مرتحل
وهل تطيق وداعا ايها الرجل
October 17, 2007 4:40 PM
hello everyone...finally ive gotton onto this blogspot thingie :-)
anyways on reading the chapter on Nasser i was actually really surprised to see myself so interested.I had a totally different idea to how the elegy contributed to poetry and how a public figure (like Nasser himself) played a great contribution to poetry. I might not be a person who reads arabic poetry but i am sure that not all people are, however, i believe that nassers death and the many elegies written about him have raised the popularity of the elegy; since he was a very popular figure.Furthermore, many people admired nasser's greatly and therefore were really interested in reading elegies about him ass to helo them get over their grief. personally, i think that poets have used their opportunity to become famous through this sad incident.
After attending class today i have a completely different approach to this chapter. i really admire Nasser and i find elegy has played a great role in this. however i never really knew that the elegy was originally intended for the private voice (but if u think about it people who are related to or friends of the deceased usually feel more about their deaths and thus produce great works such as Alkhansa and Almutanabi.
nassers death actually contributed greatly to the change in voice; since nasser was a public figure many people felt greatly towards him and were shocked towards his death and as a reslut mourned him in poetry .
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